Nine Gates requires a nine-sided wait. Since there is no winning tile at the start of the game, East would not be waiting for anything, and Nine Gates cannot be scored.
Any of the other five can be scored with the first 14 tiles: Big Four Winds, Big Three Dragons, All Green, Seven Shifted Pairs, and Thirteen Orphans do not require a winning tile.
88 Points from Scratch
- Details
- Created on Monday, 06 June 2011 16:00
- Last Updated on Wednesday, 28 November 2012 18:00
- Written by Vitaly Novikov
Dr. Watson was reading an article in “Mahjong News” about the MCR London championship.
“At the last championship something incredible happened. Professor Moriarty being East has managed to win with a hand containing 88 points fan, just from the start, with no help of the wall or opponents.”
“You see, not all 7 existing 88 pts. fans hands you can declare just from the very start with no help from the wall or opponents”, said Holmes.
“Surely, you cannot declare “Four Kongs” without replacing four tiles from the wall.”
“There is one more fan”, replied Holmes.
Question 1 (for experts) : Which 88-pts. fan (beside “Four Kongs”) East cannot declare without help from the wall?
Question 2 : How can East win then with this 88-pts. fan not giving a move to opponents?
Comments (7)
1Saturday, 18 June 2011 15:05
Chris
2Sunday, 19 June 2011 12:46
Vitaly
Congratz, Chris! You are absolutely right, "Nine Gates" requires waiting tile.
How about to answer the Question 2?
How about to answer the Question 2?
3Sunday, 19 June 2011 14:32
Adrie van Geffen
East doesn't replace his flower tile at once. First the others have a go. Then when it's time for East to discard he puts out the flower tile and takes the replacement. And, can you believe it....!
4Sunday, 19 June 2011 14:46
Chris
My apologies, Vitaly. I misunderstood the question. I can't imagine how it could be done without help from the wall, but scoring Nine Gates without opponents moving could be done with a flower replacement. Four Kongs could also be accomplished with help from the wall before opponents could move.
5Sunday, 19 June 2011 22:08
Vitaly
Congratz, Adrie! You are right -- the main idea lies in creating that required "waiting" tile by flower replacement.
Although ..
I have read your wording in a solution and found that issue might be lied much deeper that it appears at the first glance.
Up to cancelling "official" solution (for Question 2).
You offer to replace Flower AFTER "flower replacement round" (let's call it FRR for short) in order to get distinct "waiting" tile.
In my solution East would get that tile DURING FRR.
On the second thought I found several possibilities (Rules nuances) and all of them needs to be verified in terms of legitimacy. Let me explain.
0. No waiting tile immediately after tiles dealt (before FRR).
It is obvious that all 14 tile come to East as-a-bundle (non-separatable).
1. During FRR
"Open Rules Question 1": If East replaces flower than is replaced tile considered to be "part of non-breakble bundle", or, alternatively it COULD BE separated in order to create required waits?
2. After FRR
Adrie, let's check "Green Book" text about first East's move after FRR:
3.5.7.6
"... After Flower replacements, if the dealer cannot declare "hu" he will discard one unwanted tile."
You see, according to that wording East COULD NOT make additional flower replacement after FRR has finished.
As a "aside comment" I would state that at game server like MJT you CAN replace flowers at any point (which might contradict Rules).
Returning back to mystery we could have be correct mine or yours solution or neither of them depending of answers for very subtle Rules nuance.
Although ..
I have read your wording in a solution and found that issue might be lied much deeper that it appears at the first glance.
Up to cancelling "official" solution (for Question 2).
You offer to replace Flower AFTER "flower replacement round" (let's call it FRR for short) in order to get distinct "waiting" tile.
In my solution East would get that tile DURING FRR.
On the second thought I found several possibilities (Rules nuances) and all of them needs to be verified in terms of legitimacy. Let me explain.
0. No waiting tile immediately after tiles dealt (before FRR).
It is obvious that all 14 tile come to East as-a-bundle (non-separatable).
1. During FRR
"Open Rules Question 1": If East replaces flower than is replaced tile considered to be "part of non-breakble bundle", or, alternatively it COULD BE separated in order to create required waits?
2. After FRR
Adrie, let's check "Green Book" text about first East's move after FRR:
3.5.7.6
"... After Flower replacements, if the dealer cannot declare "hu" he will discard one unwanted tile."
You see, according to that wording East COULD NOT make additional flower replacement after FRR has finished.
As a "aside comment" I would state that at game server like MJT you CAN replace flowers at any point (which might contradict Rules).
Returning back to mystery we could have be correct mine or yours solution or neither of them depending of answers for very subtle Rules nuance.
6Monday, 20 June 2011 11:26
Morten Andersen
In my opinion neither option is valid because of the rules nuances mentioned.
I certainly don't believe you are allowed to exchange flowers after everyone else as east. If you missed a flower you either have to discard it or wait for your next turn.
Can you get a specific wait by exchanging flowers during the FRR?
This I think seems slightly more valid but then people would actually have to take one replacement tile at a time to make sure it is clear which one is the last (people don't usualy do this unless they only have one flower). I personaly believe that the 14 tiles you start with AFTER FRR are indistinguishable so no points can be claimed for the wait.
I certainly don't believe you are allowed to exchange flowers after everyone else as east. If you missed a flower you either have to discard it or wait for your next turn.
Can you get a specific wait by exchanging flowers during the FRR?
This I think seems slightly more valid but then people would actually have to take one replacement tile at a time to make sure it is clear which one is the last (people don't usualy do this unless they only have one flower). I personaly believe that the 14 tiles you start with AFTER FRR are indistinguishable so no points can be claimed for the wait.
7Wednesday, 22 June 2011 15:58
Martin Faartoft
I agree with Morten, I don't believe it is legal to exchange flowers immediately after the FRR as east. Just as you are not allowed to exchange flowers (or kang) after chowing/pung'ing.
It is difficult to judge the difficulty of problems, but some did take me some time to solve.
I especially enjoyed the '32nd of December' and its fourth question.
Thanks to Vitaly for the problems, to Martin for hosting the "venue" and congrats to Sylvain and Scott for their success.
A: two kongs of the same suit (i.e. 8 one-suit tiles) and a kong of wind
So... winds are now suit tiles?
And they are in every suit?
Wow!
Looks like I've misunderstood the question and it was actually an easy one!
Was it because I was the only one to answer the question within the allotted time?
Just curious.
Thanks.
At first, it looks like each player had three pure melded kongs, two of them separated by two numbers (e.g. 1 and 4), and that their left-side neighbour is waiting for these two said kongs with a ryanmen (e.g. _23_).
But it turns out there are not enough tiles for that.
So, here's the trick:
Watson had: melded: 1111m 4444m 5555m, concealed: 23s EE.
Lestrade had: melded: 1111s 4444s 5555s, concealed: 23p SS.
Holmes had: melded: 1111p 4444p 5555p, concealed: 78m WW.
Mrs. Hudson had: melded: 6666m 9999m, concealed: RRRR(concealed kong) 23m NN, and erronously melded as flowers: 2223m.
It certainly "cut off all conceivable scenarios".